Lattes with a Lawyer Recap: St. Pete Voices in Action

[Doug Jackson]
Good morning, everyone, I want to personally welcome each of you to Lattes with the Lawyer, as you know, my name’s Doug Jackson.

I’m the founding attorney with The Law Firm of Douglas G Jackson, and we’re happy to have you here today. I want to start by saying this isn’t just another networking venture seminar. It’s something unique. Lattes with a Lawyer is more than just drinking coffee with a lawyer from The Law Firm of Douglas G Jackson.

It is about bringing people together to have real meaningful conversations about our community industries and the challenges we all face today. You’re not just attendees, you are the panel. This is your platform to share insights, perspectives, and ideas in an open, engaging setting. It’s nice to have everyone back because we had a little bit of a hiatus here. So it’s good to see familiar faces as well as new ones. At The Law Firm of Douglas G Jackson, we believe in the power of community and the importance of conversation. This program was created as a relaxed open forum to discuss legal and non-legal issues that affect all of us. The goal is to learn from one another, connect on deeper level, and leave with valuable insights that extend beyond today’s discussion and each of your seats are gift bag. We’re happy to have you here. In front of you at the table, you’ll also find notepads and pens to help you take notes during our discussion, because we hope that you’ll take away some good information from today’s Lattes with a Lawyer. Perhaps most importantly, you’ll notice that each of you have received a signature Lattes with a Lawyer mug. This is our way of saying thank you for being part of this exclusive event. We hope you’ll use it, not just as a coffee mug, but a reminder that dialogue, collaboration and connection are what grows our communities. So you guys already probably know this is a discussion on a lecture. We want it to be engaging and relevant to you, so feel free to ask questions, challenge ideas, and contribute your experiences. The more we engage, the more valuable this becomes for everyone in the room. So, with that, let’s get started. We’ll go around and introduce ourselves. So, we get to know each other, and anyone reading this transcript. Since we all pretty much know each other, we’ll also get to know us a little bit more before diving into today’s conversation. Because we believe in engaging in building relationships, think the best way to do that is to actually share personal contact info. So, what I ask each of you guys to do is to go around and write your name and your cell phone number. I can’t make you do that, but I hope you all will. And then, what we do is we take a picture of that and send everyone’s contact information in a group chat so that we can continue these conversations outside. So, we’ll start to my left and Tina, do you want to introduce yourself, your name, your profession, how you heard about lattes with the lawyer, and one thing you’re hoping to get out of today’s discussion?

[Tina Yakel]
Tina Yakel with Closetivity. Custom closets, pantries, and garages. How did I hear about it? Through Alexis and all her networking, and I have never actually made it when I sign up. I always am too late, so finally made it today, and what I’m hoping is I, I don’t know what to expect. So, I’m just excited to sit here and be quiet and learn.

[Doug Jackson]
Well, we’re happy that you finally made it. We’re happy to have you.

[Dayna Himot]
Hi, my name is Dayna Hammett and I am the Founder of gopher content, and how I found out? I found out from Alexis and chamber events about a year ago, and just wanted to be a part of this and have been away for a minute doing summer things and work things. What I’m hoping to get out of today is just to jump back in and plug myself back into the community. I feel like this is a really good place to stay connected and to also just figure out what we’re doing next in the city.

[Katie Tawzer]
Hi, everybody! My name is Katie Tawzer. I am the new Executive Assistant at The Law Firm of Douglas G Jackson. I’ve been around for like a month and a half, so still getting my feet wet, and um, figuring out how I can be helpful and trying to make those connections in the community.

[Scott Perelstein]
Are you local kid?

[Katie Tawzer]
So, I’m from Wesley Chapel currently live in St Pete, yes.

[Scott Perelstein]
That’s pretty local.

[Katie Tawzer]
Yeah, Tampa on the outskirts.

[Scott Perelstein]
Hi, I’m Scott Perelstein with Alchemy Academy. I am substituting for Janine Perelstein University doing a little puny this morning and asked me to come in. I learned about it also through Alexis and have been before and loved the discussion. I am very excited about topic number one and curious about all the different perspectives on how we will manage that as a city and as a country.

[Doug Jackson]
I’m not going to consider you a substitute. You’re just a regular. Thank you.

[Dana Himot]
He’s pretty regular, I know.

[Gregg Potter]
And I am Greg Potter with Legacy Venture Group and I am a Business Broker, and I am a repeat offender, and so they keep inviting me back, and I keep showing up, probably for Comic relief, but I’ll take what I can get. And yeah, I’m hoping to get out of this… figure out what we can do as a Community to tackle some of these issues. As you know, we always say it’s a all politics. It’s local, and all action is local, and I think we can do a lot of things here in St Pete and hopefully have those filter out to the real world.

[Doug Jackson]
Alright, and you’re not just comic relief you actually… because we do have a transcript, and we try to put together the best quotes from this, Top 10 Quotes and Greg usually has at least a few of those on there. So, all right, and Alexis, for the purposes of the transcript, you want to introduce yourself?

[Alexis Egozcue]
Sure, I’m Alexis Egozcue, The Law Firm of Douglas G Jackson, Community Relations and Marketing Coordinator.

[Doug Jackson]
All right. All right. So now, for those of you who have been here, you know, but for those who don’t, we like to now dive into some discussions about the biggest challenges we face in our Industries and community. What do we have one? Two? Two, four, five, six? Okay, we got about two minutes, a person roughly, for this little round table discussion. What we do, though, is we go around. This is our chance to share one major issue affecting our industry or our local community. Think about the biggest obstacles you’re facing. The trends that concern you, these could be economic, legal, business related, or even broader societal challenges. We’re not necessarily looking for Solutions today. We probably don’t have time to jump into Solutions. This is about identifying problems, exploring why they matter, and understanding their broader impact. We might, briefly, try to find solutions to some of them if time permits. As we go around the table, I try to encourage everyone to take notes and consider themes that emerge. These discussions will help shape future topics for Lattes with a Lawyer. So, I do ask, also, we always go into it, but I do ask that we try to stay away from the featured topics for today. These are other problems we’re going to dive into that later. Tina, you’re new here. So you didn’t know this was coming, so I’ll go over to my right with Gregg.

[Gregg Potter]
It’s the same old, same old song and dance, the second verse same as the first. It’s economic uncertainty. This is the biggest thing affecting my industry right now. People don’t want to part with millions of dollars to buy a new business, when they’re unsure of the tariff situation when they’re unsure of the topic number one, that I won’t repeat situation when they’re unsure of General economic stability.

[Doug Jackson]
What about selling your business? Is that impacting are people trying to sell? Are the people not trying to sell?

[Gregg Potter]
Because the same, same everything applies to the sellers as well, when things are uncertain. People are just uncomfortable. It’s, it’s a big move to sell what is, in most of the most of the instances of with the sellers I deal with,  going to be the largest transaction of their entire life. Very often, much more than their home or anything else they’re going to do. What people like is comfort and certainty, and anything that disrupts that…

[Doug Jackson]
Disrupts the business? Is the uncertainty is, is the situation, Is that impacting how businesses are doing as well? Are they? Are we seeing changes in terms of sale price, I guess, in terms of productivity and revenue?

[Gregg Potter]
Definitely impacting on brick and mortar stores. I don’t do a lot of brick and mortar, but there’s a fair amount that I do, and I’ve got a few right now. Bars, restaurants, retail. It’s definitely affecting because everything’s down for a number of reasons, especially in downtown St Pete, my major market and it doesn’t matter as much on the professional practice side, as far as affecting their business, but I think it just affects your outlook. When you say, well, do I want to sell now and take this cash influx and retire and move on to something else, which is the general reason people are selling on the professional practice side, or I’m uncertain, so I’m going to stay with this business, I’m going to keep my dental practice for another, you know, two years because I need I need the certain income I need a defined definite parameters on what I’m going to be bringing in.

[Doug Jackson]
Okay, Interesting. Scott?

[Scott Perelstein]
Well, I would say it’s the same for me. Or, I said, I would have said that two weeks ago, in that we certainly feel like as a consulting firm and services company that people are unwilling to make decisions. We’ve had great conversations. We’ve had a lot of good feedback and then just not pulling of the final…I don’t know what the end of that analogy is, what do you? You pull the?

[Tina Yakel]
Trigger?

[Scott Perelstein]
Thank you. I didn’t really want to say that, but thank you. So definitely. That is part of it, is just the uncertainty of people like, I would say the exact things that were just said, as well as the new things that are coming as topics that people didn’t expect. I think the uncertainty of the like, oh my, God, we’re talking about that? We’re going to talk about that in years. Oh my God, that’s in play now. And so I think that the total chaotic uncertainty of not just the top three issues from an election, but the random things that have been coming to the head are a problem now. In addition to that, I would say we have made a few sales lately, and one the, the probably the largest sale we’ve made in a while. With somebody who’s going to benefit from that chaos, and that’s somebody helping with Medicare. And so the massive changes that are going on are like, massive confusion to clients has opened up a market for them, so they’re preparing themselves for a crazy three months coming up and having to talk to every client they’ve ever talked to before, because really everybody sort of needs to review what they’ve had in the past what’s available now, and what that shuffle is. And so, my guess is, yeah, that’s so. Actually doing better than we have in a while, and that’s a surprise. And prior to that, I would say the obstacle is absolutely uncertainty, and one that’s going well is doing well because of uncertainty. So I’m just curious.

[Doug Jackson]
Ever since we revamped our Lattes with a Lawyer to discuss these problems, uncertainty has been the really the theme, and I’m just curious, was there ever a time that uncertainty wasn’t the biggest problem?

[Scott Perelstein]
Yes.

[Doug Jackson]
For sure, yes?

[Scott Perelstein]
Sure. Yeah, I mean, we had we had about six eight years of interest rates going down and low and general progress, three percent a year, and people were making long-term plans and feeling like, you know, you get logged into thinking I can plan for next year, I can spend this money because it’s going to be similar to this year, but the back and forth made at the presidential level I think has created that.

[Doug Jackson]
Okay, yeah, interesting? Alexis you want to weigh in?

[Alexis Egozcue]
So, I think, for me, it is people right now are really scared. Not everyone, but people are really scared to do anything. So they kind of they have paralysis analysis, right? So what I’m saying is, like, hey guys, you really need to make sure that you protect yourself. Maybe really make sure that you’re taking care of things now. Have your Wills done. Have your estate planning done. Hey, if you have VA things, especially with the government shutdown like, you needed to do this yesterday, you know, but the second best time to do things is right now. When people are so concerned just about their business staying or about just buying groceries that they’re kind of putting all these things on the back burner. And rightfully so.

[Doug Jackson]
Some more uncertainty. All right, Okay, Katie, you want to win any new ideas.

[Katie Tawzer]
I’m gonna switch things up. Yes, so, you know, being relatively young, and um, new in general…I guess to the professional sphere, I think, you know, I don’t run a business. I don’t have any big, um challenges like that yet. But I think for me, especially in my position at the Firm and trying to create systems and bring organization and things like that, I think the biggest thing that I see is just, in some cases… Um…Not an unwillingness, but for lack of a better word an unwillingness to change or a fear of it or not wanting to implement new systems, or having some resistance to that. And I don’t see a ton of it at The Firm. Don’t worry, Doug, but just in general. I think you know, in previous positions, especially. People being afraid of change because it’s new, but a lot of times change can bring new lessons and bring improvements. So I just kind of, um, as someone who can tend to be pessimistic I try to be as optimistic as I can.

[Scott Perelstein]
Having just gone through a job search, how do you feel like uncertainty impacted

[Katie Tawzer]
As someone who was recently, you know, looking for new employment, it’s very… The common trend right now is that the job market is not great. There are not a lot of new positions, or you know, the uncertainty you’re talking about, people can’t afford to bring someone on. So, the search was going on for a while, at least for me in particular, I obviously can’t speak to other people. And then my search within the Firm was also a long search and a rigorous process, and it kind of did… It was very uncertain. I don’t really know how to speak on other people. I kind of had to take a leap of faith. My last position was not something I was thriving in or felt very comfortable in. The environment was pretty harsh. And so, it was one of those things where it was, you know if I stay here, the past position, if I stay here I’m not improving. I’m not growing, I feel very stagnant, and I can’t risk declining and losing part of myself. My professional self, personal self, I need to make a change. For the better, and then change in that case was better.

[Doug Jackson]
Yeah, speaking about change that you’re speaking in Scott’s language. That’s, like, that’s basically what you guys do. Yeah, change management. Um, but yeah, it is, that’s interesting. I mean, the metrics that are showing are that, new employees like, uh, coming out of college are having a really, really difficult time getting jobs right now, which certainly creates uncertainty for them as well. So why did I? We did so well about not talking about uncertainty. I brought it right back in right now.

[Scott Perelstein]
Well, I would I have jumped in for just a sec. I keep hearing that the number of jobs per month is going down, but it’s still a zillion jobs, and it’s still like a couple hundred thousand people are getting employed every month, and there are certainly layoffs going on, but those big companies that are laying off thousands of people are also rehiring people. They’re just adjusting to new strategies and what they should be doing. And they don’t have the right people or they’re not willing to take the time to see if this person is good over there. They just pull this lever and pull this lever and it’s working for them. So there’s still a lot of people finding work and finding jobs and being hired into into up buildings and or businesses that are moving and growing and planning.

[Doug Jackson]
I have read a little bit that some of these AI Solutions are, like, oh great, we have an AI solution, we’re going to lay off all these people, and then they realize the AI is not as good as I thought it was, so they have to rehire everyone, so it’s just

[Dayna Himot]
Great segways! Oh my gosh, this is so rich! It’s so good to be back, um? I love the overlaps that I’m sharing with you as a 54 year old woman. I actually recently left a very secure position because I was stagnant and I wanted to grow, and I risked everything. And I actually started my own company, which I don’t recommend unless you’ve got like something you can physically hand people, uh, at your age, but I’m not trying to mom you, but it sounds like that it’s recorded, so I can’t get out of it, but um. I love that, and everything you said is valid, um, everything everyone is saying is valid. I can’t wait to hear what you have to say, but I’m gonna go over this as just real quick as a versus a solopreneur, and what I’m seeing with my company. So I have National projects, Uh, that are not all paying the bills, but I have about four National clients. Those are family services, ultra high net worth Family Services, so I’m not talking like, uh, daycare Services. I’m talking, like, just what? Think of a high net worth family and the bougie stuff and the travel, and those are my people. So you’re talking about Legacy estate planning, things like that those things are still doing well. Those larger companies that are Forbes level like, for, you know, that have that had that kind of exposure? Sure, they’re hiring. They are growing, and they are training, and they are hiring me to do projects. Marketing type projects, so that’s good. Um. And some nationally political. I have another client out west, who is, she’s working with a political polit, whatever political company, she’s a marketer, and she’s subbing out stuff to me. Because I am an AI, uh, connoisseur curator. I’m really good at it, so she’s trying to scale, so those two areas are functionally doing well. Locally, um. And I know you’re like, why is she saying, well, we’re talking about problems? Well, I’m trying. I want to get there locally. What I’m seeing is exactly what you’re seeing. I met with a peer in business who is pivoted her HR business, and she’s starting a Medicare Consultants agency, and she’s already picking up clients, and I asked her how it works. And she said, basically, everything’s working through the insurance. I want you to talk to my mom, I need, you know, she’s doing well. I might be doing some stuff for them. Um, solopreneurs are pivoting. People are pivoting while having full-time jobs, which is great for me as well again. Locally, I’m not getting paid, so I’m having to offer a lot of value up front, which is starting to kill me, and it’s giving me a reputation that I don’t charge. I actually do charge, and I have high paying clients, but I haven’t been able to like voice that, which is why I’ll be talking to you about social media and stuff like that later. But um, what I’m trying to say is too. I recently had a family member who’s very close to me move here, and I’ve been working with them. I’m marketing themselves, and uh, they are under 30, and I can tell you not only have they, uh, gone to job fairs. Not only have they applied for many, many jobs, they’ve been nearly hired within 24 to 48 hours, and they are, and I won’t go too deep, but it part of it was for, uh, airport related stuff. So, the airport is hiring. There are. Happening, even if they’re still doing projections, right? So I’d say the ultra high net worth people are still moving forward, and then the people with a skill on Wellness or medical stuff are still moving forward and obviously with the midterms coming. Everybody’s like, ah. So, even though I personally am not locally financially functioning, and I’m really, really, I’m really scared right now. I’m so scared, and I’m being real honest for your audio recording. If I can just keep up with getting some of those clients? Um, but I’m getting. I think that the uncertainty what I’m seeing is, it’s actually inspiring people to take action, so I like it. I like the uncertainty. I like the fact that, um, we I want to fix and everything to be all happy again, but right now, I’m thriving off of it. Also, because I do have a niche with AI, I do know how to pick up where people left off and say, oh, what do I do and help them? Um, and then. I guess for the clients, uh, locally. But I think it’s a lack of Education. I think it’s a it’s not knowing over uncertainty, so what I’m arguing, is, is, it’s not that people are on certain or fearful. It’s that people don’t know, and they’re not willing to ask for help. And so the educational things that you do with, like BEN and uh, educational through One Million Cups, educational through what you guys do, by the way, you’re the reason I got a solo job and started my own companies because I was uncertain and spiritical, and I made a change because of you. You’re a lovely lady, so uncertainty is really more about not knowing and being uneducated and being afraid to ask for help.

[Doug Jackson]
So let me ask you real quick question then, so you were talking about National versus local? What I actually think I heard was big business versus small business.

[Dana Himot]
Also, reputation. Like, I have a national reputation of 30 years. I only have a four or five year reputation in St Pete.

[Doug Jackson]
Okay, so is it fair to say then that the challenge that I think you may have captured here is that small businesses don’t know how to project, and they don’t know how to really share with others and collaborate with other small businesses?

[Dana Himot]
Absolutely, 100%. Unless they have an existing relationship that’s larger than longer than five years. Absolutely. Like if I could get in the door of certain places that want to… I would be doing great. Only because I have the national reputation those people will hire me, and they have a little bit more money, and they’re willing to take the risk because they have so much money to bank onto.

[Doug Jackson]
Okay alright, we need to move on, because you voiced a lot, and we’re running out of time. Yeah, so Tina…

[Tina Yakel]
Okay. I’ll try to be quick, so the one thing I’d say about uncertainty is, I think, if we just disconnected social media and TV, that uncertainty would go away. I think that feeds people’s fear and fear is really not real. It’s false emotions appearing real, so it’s the shit we create. Oh, the stuff, oops! We create in our head, and I have battled that over the year over this year because I have been paralyzed by fear and I’ve realized it’s all pretty damn fake in my head. Um, so I don’t watch TV. For me with positivity. Oh, I do want to say one thing, Roger said, which I learned from him. And that’ll go off a couple of things that you guys said, which I found was really interesting with Alexis. When you’re like, people aren’t wanting to put money and do legal stuff. Well, actually, Roger said, and I believe whatever, Roger said, because he’s like God to me. Um, he said the top 10% right now in our economy are responsible for like 80 to 90 % of the purchases. So if you’re targeting people who are not in the top percent, you’re not going to get any sales right now! Because they’re not spending the money. And so it is the top percent. And so, for me, with closets, we’ve had to really rethink that because we, we are not, um, we don’t play around with our prices, so I don’t do that crazy BS bull crap marketing where it’s like, hey, 65 off, and then another 15 off, like at the end, the price is the price, which we will be the same price as them when they find out they’re competing with us or even a little bit lower, um? But the top 10 percent perceive the higher price is a better value. And that’s with everything. We’ve learned that with a lot of the stuff Roger teaches, and so that for me, is my struggle. Is, how do I change my marketing? How do I change my words? How do I change and how do I ethically increase my BS charges to compete with that when I don’t want to be, like, oh sure, we can give you a $19,000 closet when it’s really only five thousand, and eventually I’ll drop it down to 5, 000. Like, to me, that’s just unethical, but that’s what I’m competing against, um, and the jobs that we’ve gone up against. We have lost a few because the perception is, it’s better because it’s $19,000. And I have been able to recoup them because I actually will pick up the phone and be like, tell me why you think it’s better like, what, what’s going on, and having that conversation? Some people do not want to talk to you. They’re just they’re like, no, I’m just, but we’re perceived cheap. Um, and so, and, and most of the time, we have a better quality. We have better customer service. We are faster, um, so the words I’m struggling with the marketing. That’s, that is one thing. The other thing is the um. Finding people to work so, the people to help my husband, the handy people.

I really have really high standards. My husband’s retired law enforcement, so he does not play around like it’s down to the 16th inch. I mean, it is, like, so darn precise, and a lot of people we’ve picked up from our competitors who have been left or whatever they do about. And there’s a lot of cutting in your driveway. There’s a lot of baloney in your driveway that we don’t do. But how do I communicate that without being negative and then finding the right person that has the same value and attention to detail? So that’s pretty much our challenge.

[Doug Jackson]
Well, thank you. I think you’re the first person ever that’s actually given, like, a very specific challenge. We are everyone else that gives these high level challenges. But just to quickly rephrase, for when I’m going through this and looking for other topics. So, basically, you said something I think we discussed one time is that we, we are so impacted by media that is fear driven, which is kind of going to be the second topic a little bit and, and we actually said, one time we’re like, well. Should we? I mean, it’s funny, because this whole thing is talking about problems, and I think there is a balance like, we don’t want to be overwhelmed with problems, but at the same time, we can’t be blind to them. You talked about, uh? I’m going to rephrase this a little bit, but the top 10 % are spending and the bottom 90 really aren’t, which we’re actually seeing a bit of, uh, an acceleration in in income and wealth going to the top one %, which is actually squeezing out I think the bottom percent, and so, while that may be a good marketing opportunity, it does create another problem of what happens when they have even more and then it’s harder for the local businesses to do business with one another, which is silos, which we’ve talked about. You talked about kind of just messaging promotions and then the other problem I think you talked about, which is really hard for small businesses everywhere, is scaling and finding personnel. So sorry, I just wanted to recap that. So I had a bit more of a concise list, and now we’ll move into our topic one which I’ll actually expand to 25 minutes because everyone voiced excitement about topic one versus topic two, uh, but so topic one is our current topic, so we always do our current topics here, and our current topic… Honestly, our feature topics are usually pretty current too, but our current topic is right now we’re in a federal government shutdown. And so we, this is going to have obviously impact on First Federal workers and people with Federal programs. But there’s going to be, the longer this goes on potentially more overflow into to everything, even locally. And so, it’s, I’m going to try because we’ve got a couple political topics. So, I want our discussions not to be trying to place blame on any political party here, but talk about… Hey, what do we expect to see from the government shutdown? And I mean, we talked about uncertainty, being a big theme, and this is not this is only contributing to uncertainty, not helping uncertainty. What do we expect to see, especially locally, and what can we do to try to remedy this or mitigate this for ourselves and others? What kind of steps and procedures can we take and should we? Should we maybe refrain from spending? Should we be thinking that we’re going to see a Slowdown? Or should we continue in spending and investing in others? The longest one we ever had was in 2018, and it was 35 days. At that point, they did pay back all the federal workers, and so that that’s usually a good thing. But this time they’re even talking about laying off federal workers. So what kind of impacts are those going to have? Uh, so anyone want to jump in and start the discussion here?

[Dayna Himot]
I just really want to jump in and start on a positive note that Tampa Airport is hiring. And they had a very successful job fair. There was a lot of people there, and I saw people getting hired on the spot. And I know someone who is in a contract and hired from it. So, and this is right within, the thing happened on the first, and they were hired, uh, this Monday. So, during the shutdown. And so my thinking is that somehow there’s everyone still going along as is, or there’s maybe something I don’t know. Um, I’m gonna tell you what

[Gregg Potter]
You don’t know.

[Dana Himot]
That’s great. And so, and, but I’m saying it. And I’d love to hear what, I don’t know. And I also seen other, uh, government related people of just getting hired. So I, I want to hear what you know that I don’t know.

[Gregg Potter]
The SBA is shut down. I currently have a deal that um, not only did this deal fall through because we couldn’t, somebody was searching for a Visa. I want to point out that the person trying to get a Visa was Canadian. It’s not like she’s from Oman, or –

[Dana Himot]
I just want to be clear that I was talking about- I didn’t say I don’t see your problem because I’m very clear, what I was trying to bring optimism into the situation where it says right here, How is it going to effect people locally, and –

[Gregg Potter]
So I appreciate that, and I’m totally hearing you. This is how It’s going to affect people locally. This is how it’s going to affect my seller because she lost a deal because somebody could not get a Visa from Canada. That was bad enough. Now, we’ve lost, now, we’ve put a deal on hold because the SBA is shut down, and it was a deal that was going through SBA. I know, for effect, the SBA is not, was not famous for moving quickly before in the past year, like-

[Doug Jackson]
The rest of the federal government.

[Gregg Potter]
Correct. They’re famously efficient and timely, but it is affecting people locally. So this is affecting us, but this is affecting somebody that cannot sell that. Now, can’t sell their business, and it affects me because it takes $25,000 out of my pocket, and that $25,000 comes out of my pocket and goes back into local people’s pockets. I’m very adamant about shopping local. I bought some new, I bought a computer monitor from Amazon, but that’s just because I don’t know. Wait, the alternative is Best Buy, and they’re not local either, but you, probably should have talked to you. You probably know somebody that, I didn’t think… It’s okay, we still love you. Yeah, you know, and you know, I try to shop local, so that’s how it’s affecting people local. That’s how this government shutdown affects people locally, because, um. That’s, that’s a lot of money. It takes $280,000 out of my seller’s pocket. It takes the buyer out of an opportunity to purchase that business and go on and do great things. It takes money out of my pocket, and the deal will now it. I, if the government came back today while we’re in here, maybe somebody announced something, that it that will now back up that deal to next year. There’s very little chance, if they come back, that that deal will close with sbn money in 2025, it won’t. We were into, we were into the end of November, the beginning of December now, and so that’s, that’s, you know? I have opinions on if the government shutdown should have happened or shouldn’t have happened, but it definitely affects people, and it affects a lot of local people, and, and I’m also worried, that it’s going to start to, that’s going to start to trickle down. That’s just on the SBA 7A loan when it starts to get into the 504 loans and all of that where people are saying, hey, I want to buy this piece of machinery for my for my business as if there’s any manufacturing locally, but you know, I want to, I want to expand. I want to expand my business. I need to buy this big piece of Machinery that cuts closet doors. I don’t, whatever you have in there, you know, that’s that is definitely going to start to trickle down.

[Tina Yakel]
What industry was her-

[Gregg Potter]
It’s a dog groomer.

[Dana Himot]
A dog groomer, okay.

[Tina Yakel]
I don’t have a I don’t have a comment on closets, but in my other world. With how does that affect us locally. So, speaking in real estate, that’s my other world. This last year or so I’ve really, Doug and I’ve talked a little bit, I’ve really dove into multi-family big complexes, and I’ve really learned so much. So residential sales they’re down. We all know that interest rates are, they are, that is what it is, however, there’s a lot of research right now that people don’t want to buy a home. It’s just easier to rent, and there is a trend now that that’s not only are the interests are affecting, it’s a mental thing. They’re, like, I don’t, I don’t need the American dream anymore. I just want somebody else to handle everything. I just want to rent. What I’ve learned recently digging into affordable housing is, it’s a scam.

[Gregg Potter]
Yep, it’s-

[Tina Yakel]
Total BS, and so it is a buzzword that makes people feel good. Yeah, we got affordable housing. It’s a, it’s a scam. It is, it is put on by the government and, digging into the numbers and digging into, and we do have one under contract right now, like, so I really am in it in it, and what I feel the solution is? You. I come from a very poor background. There was five of us in a two bedroom, one bath home. That was it. That was all we had. It was less than 900 square feet. We had nothing, if you don’t teach people that they can have something you will never get out of that. I was in trouble. I was the first person out of five generations to leave it. Nobody, you don’t go to college like, you get married. It is a mindset and digging into this world of affordable housing. We think we’re doing good, but we’re not, and we’re not educating them. And so my passion is okay, yeah, affordable housing, but let’s dig into those people at a captive audience and teach how to get out, teach how to get out, there’s ways to get out, it’s a mindset. It starts up here, but that’s not what the government does. So, this is, what’s crazy is nationally? And especially in Florida. It’s expected to increase rents every year three to six%. That is normal. That’s the standard in affordable housing, and I put my hand on a Bible. I’ll give you my kids, not that you want them. I’m 30 to 60 percent annual increase on these poor people, and the reason is, is because HUD says, well, I know, I’m giving you more money so you can afford it. And so, HUD tells the owners how much to increase it, so these poor people can never get out. They get a pay raise. They get more money, and their rent gets jacked up, sometimes two to four hundred dollars a month. So super passionate! Super annoyed, I almost wish I didn’t learn it, but now I feel like. Okay, now I know it, if we can buy this property, that is my mission in here is to get everyone out. Get them out of it. Teach them, educate because if they don’t know that they even can, they never will. And then we continue to feed the government and depend on them. So that’s my passion. I’m just frustrated with it all with that. That’s nothing to do with closets. So sorry,

[Doug Jackson]
What’s going on with, uh, mortgages? There’s a lot of government-backed mortgages are those going through right now?

[Tina Yakel]
If you are USDA or um? The anything that is government-backed. Um, the 100% financing when people need them, they are slower right now, so you can still do it. It’s taking longer the other thing that’s a problem, especially here is if you have flood insurance? Baby girl, you ain’t closing, and so if you can get just a standard policy, or which is another reason if you’re buying, why people are tending to go to new construction and not buying resales is because it’s easy to get insurance, and it’s cheaper. But if you need any type of flood insurance, you need anything? That’s a little bit more structured. It ain’t happening right now.

[Dayna Himot]
Can I respond? Yes, this was great. Thank you for everything you shared. I have some different experiences, but I love it because you’re passionate, and you’re gonna get stuff done. I can’t wait to see you succeed. Um, regarding the low income housing I, similar story, low income, whatever. But I got out of it. I used to be on food stamps. When my kids were little after I got a divorce, I hate saying that on there, but I just gotta say it because it’s real, and I went to school, and I had lots of college debt and all that stuff and, and I never wanted to stay in a system, so I got out. I’ve lived in co-housing communities where you had multi levels you had, right, high income, middle income, and low income. I lived in Detroit, where 20% of the, the any housing , public housing has to be for low income, and they have people with manageable incomes in that. So, I’ve seen other cities do this. Um, my concern is my senior family members, and they are… So I live, I have someone in my life who is absolutely brokenhearted and thinks that she has lost her country and is crying every day because she has uncertainty. You know, disability and Social Security and all this stuff and is, is scared, cannot get a job at 75, even though physically, they couldn’t handle it. Can’t get a job because they’re afraid to lose their HUD housing, and because they can’t didn’t have any financial planning. They have nothing, so they are living in Despair. And so I, these are all passionate things. And it’s written, and they weren’t on in the system, and now they are they, they thought they could have a retirement and live off of their social security. And they couldn’t. So I just think that it’s so awesome. The solution stuff that Doug’s always putting in, like, how can we help people, and you’re saying the same thing I’m saying about business people is that they don’t know. So they need education. And I think that that, you know, local education is really whether it’s for people who need something or people have something to offer. It’s really where it’s at is, like, something’s fractured about what we know.

[Tina Yakel]
Right, you know, I think, with small businesses, even if we know we don’t have the money to do it. I can know all I want, but I can’t. I can’t pay for it. A lot of it. An older senior? I don’t have the solutions for that, so I the only thing I’ve done dug in, is what I’m currently in, and these are young working middle class people that I really feel, and I didn’t even know this existed until I got into this, that there’s is a, there’s a genuine need for realness and hope and not Doom and Gloom and a way out. And that’s where I think Community can help back that by providing these people with hope. If you come from what I come from, there is no hope. This is just what you do, and so that you’re not around. You don’t do these around people that give you hope. And so, if you have the right owners in the right Community, then you can really make a huge impact and difference, and get people hope some will stay in and peace out. That’s okay. They can stay in, like, maybe 10% get out, and you just made a huge impact. 10 get out.

[Gregg Potter]
What does that help look like? I grew up comfortably. Middle class I, I don’t, really.

[Tina Yakel]
I don’t know the answer. Solution right now is very probably Elementary. My solution in there right now is to be like? Let’s talk.

[Dayna Himot]
Yeah, what do you need?

[Tina Yakel]
I don’t know the answer. I, I mean, I haven’t, we don’t own it yet, so I haven’t gotten into it, but I just I gotta hear where they’re at. I gotta learn about them. I gotta, and I don’t know what I don’t know it. I just know there’s something.

[Gregg Potter]
I think that’s a lot of the problem is, I think people like me, middle class, middle-aged white guy, get in the habit of telling poor people what they need when I have absolutely no frame of reference for any of it, right?

[Tina Yakel]
I mean, I got out because? I don’t know why I got out. I just was born different. I just didn’t want it, but my entire family. I am special.

[Dayna Himot]
My question is still information, so I’ve been building that Hub. I’ve been telling you all about. I’ve been quiet because I’ve been building a place for information for bringing us back to like, one of the first revamps we did with yeah, the Hub and dissemination of information. Yeah, so I’m building a hub and I’m also building crowd built. Um, it’s, I’m just so close to finding, I gotta present to somebody so it can get funded, not here. I’m not looking for your money, but I’m building a network of crowd building where people can know where their soup kitchens are, where they can take a warm shower where they can, hear me out, only because if you have someone who’s homeless in your family, this is why or they have a way to plug in their phone, but then it’s paired with education not giving out sleeping bags, but getting people to information that they don’t understand. People out there need sponsors for their social security.

[Tina Yakel]
Daystar does all that

[Dana Himot]
Yeah, but see not everyone has access to Heidi, so this is why. One of the things that I’ve noticed in St Pete over the last five years is that there are already all of these things, what they’re not all doing is talking to each other. So, what I’m saying when I’m saying Hub is I want Daystar. I want the other non-profits. I want all the people to be able to have all the information, and so if you need to find something, you can look and then have options to give to people. So,

[Doug Jackson]
Dayna and Tina, I wish you were both here for our affordable housing discussion. Yeah, you guys have hijacked this one, but let’s bring this back a little bit because here’s, here’s what I’m hearing. You’re both saying is that and you too Greg, talking about SBA is that this is going to affect and going back to your challenge capture idea. Dana, this is going to affect small businesses and individuals much more than it’s going to affect the large businesses. Because the large businesses have been educated, they’ve been preparing they probably built up a reserve, uh, and, and I think what I’m hearing is that they, the individuals are going to be impacted by this, and probably not even today. Some of them might be, Greg’s already, and your clients already being affected today, but I mean, we, we have not even hit. And, and again, this is going, if it resolves quickly? Great. The impact’s gonna be a lot less, if it takes 35 days, like the last one or longer? It’s going to be much more severe because our federal workers, too, which there are a huge number of federal workers. I think it might be the largest employer, yeah, and they are not getting paid, and so there’s not going to be the next paycheck, which I think is what the 15^th? I think they usually get paid the 15th and the 30th. Is, they’re not gonna, they’re gonna have a harder time buying groceries. They’re going to have, I mean, okay, maybe it’ll be good for the credit card companies? Um, but they’re going to cut back, and if they cut back because they’re consumers and we have, we have federal workers across the country. There’s still another, trying to bring it back into offices, but there’s still a lot of remote federal workers. We have Bay Pines right here, which is a huge, it’s actually the largest VA facility. And, and even the people that are reliant on benefits like, we do a lot of Veterans Disability and Social Security. Luckily, the politicians have figured out they can’t actually touch veterans benefits, otherwise they’re going to lose it all. It doesn’t matter what side they’re on, they’re going to lose the next election. But, uh, back in 2013, I was working for a firm that did just Social Security Disability, and they, an entire month they couldn’t, they had to pay all of us, but they weren’t getting paid. And so, even with that being said, though it slows down processing, I mean, we’re talking about this with, hey, our okay, great, even though these people are working, they’re not getting paid. Do we think they’re going to be as productive? Do we think they’re going to be able to get the benefits as fast? And the way money works is if we expect, if we have regular payments, if we, if Greg goes and buys groceries, if Greg goes to Crafty squirrel every Friday, if Greg stops going to crafty squirrel-

[Scott Perelstein]
Yeah,

[Doug Jackson]
Those bartenders are, yeah, are they’re not buying groceries now, and this, this is this overflow effect, and I think they, I think there’s something like a government shutdown costs the economy like three billion dollars they estimate, uh, even for, even for the short durations, but I think it’s an interesting outcome of something like that.

[Scott Perelstein]
And Greg said, you know, all politics and well living is local. Is that a shutdown causes us to see where the cracks are. What are the things the federal government does and impacts, and what are the things they don’t? And that’s helpful because I think I think we feel a void. You know, if the government does things that other people weren’t doing and other people do things the government’s not doing, and this gives us an opportunity to kind of highlight those interactions or the interaction between those two different worlds and see what is still. The federal government’s having an impact on my life every day, and what are the things that we can’t count on the federal government to do. So, we need to create a hub in non-profits and to step up and we need to support those non-profits because, we just saw those are the people that really suffered from the government. So it’s an interesting spotlight, I think, on where we are.

[Dayna Himot]
You, you mentioned a client like six months, and we don’t have to talk about it because public, but you did have a client that was going to be affected by the tarrifs, and I know which one it was. Can tell you what they had, right? Uh, and

[Scott Perelstein]
I repurchase because they were afraid. Yeah.

[Dayna Himot]
And I’m wondering, was that true? Did it affect them, or did I guess, what I’m saying is they were worried about getting this one item that they needed to run their business, and they went and pre-purchased. Did they need to do that? Have they checked up on that? I’m just curious

[Scott Perelstein]
We haven’t checked up on that. Okay, I would- just because you didn’t renew with us. The same money they’re going to use to renew with us, and they pre-purchased a bunch of. But plus they needed for their Builder Factory.

[Dana Himot]
I would love to know only because of the uncertainty Factor, right? You had uncertainty, they canceled you. They got this other thing, and I’m like, wait, did that really happen, and we can use that as data? We know the SBA is screwed, we know everybody, and I really am upset for your person, and I hope it works out. But where can we get the data now from the last six months? So that’s another solution. Is data is King? I know you didn’t prompt into solutions, but I feel like data is king. It really helps us understand where we have the uncertainty, how we reacted or didn’t react. And what can we do in the future as these things continue to trickle out?

[Doug Jackson]
So that’s interesting. I never thought about that, so the fact that they didn’t have money to pay is the reason that we don’t have as good of data, so it, it actually, the consumers are what drive the data, and so even when, like, if we were in a government shutdown and we had fewer consumers, we have less data to work on too. So, that is, that is a really interesting thing.

[Scott Perelstein]
Weather. The government, which controls most of the science around reporting. The weather decides to not fund that we can’t make the decisions we normally make based on the weather, right? That’s a, that’s a void. I’m sure somebody will fill it somehow and we’ll subscribe to it or however that works. But there’s going to be that place in the middle where we don’t have the data and that’s not good.

[Tina Yakel]
To you, I think, in my opinion, it all comes back down to education. And so, how do you, the mentality is, you got to get a job. The best job is to get a government job because you’re safe, and you’ll get a pension and you’ll get, I mean, that’s a mentality of a lower income, so they want the security well now, look where it got you. So, how do you start to educate to get us off of the government? How did, where, how does that start? Like, like, if we stop depending on the government, then this crap wouldn’t matter. Like how-

[Gregg Potter]
The government does, though? Isn’t that the job of the government to handle some of these things? That I cannot launch a weather satellite? I mean, we could pool our money, you know? Maybe we can afford, like a really, a discount Temu weather satellite, but we can’t.

[Dayna Himot]
We can’t.

[Gregg Potter]
We can’t launch a weather satellite,

[Doug Jackson]
No, that’s not actually true, because look, you’ve got SpaceX. They’re a private company, and they’re, like, oh look, look how efficient they are, but they are getting so much government money. Okay, so even SpaceX, even Elon Musk’s. What, one of the top, is he, the richest? We, I don’t know, would always fluctuate, even he can’t afford to do this without the United States government and I talk about this sometimes, and I’m going to say it now because I think it’s important. I, one of the reasons I, I think law, is such an interesting thing, and I think I also think money is an interesting thing, is because it’s totally made up. Like we, we, it only exists because we believe in it. Now, law is so cool, because we, as a society, decided to come together. We’re like, hey, we need something that we need, can believe in, to hold each other accountable so that we can do more than we can do as individuals, and that’s what a government is. And there was one Justice that was, uh, he famously said I like paying taxes. I feel like I’m paying for civilization, and that’s, that’s every type of organization you have. Every business is an organization. What is an organization? It’s a collection of people. You look at like a country club or whatever, guess what? You’re all paying dues because you can do more collectively than you can do individually, so it’s, I do tend to agree with you, Gregg. I think that, yeah, we as a society have said our government needs to fill certain gaps that aren’t going to be filled. We do need to move on to the next topic, so I will say this though, what was really interesting to me is that, this really kind of hit on a lot of the themes that we’ve had. Is that the small guys are going to get impacted more than the big guys, and unfortunately, what we know is that when the small guys get impacted more than the big guys, the big guys end up occupying more space, buying up more of the small guys, and it gets harder for the small guys. It gets harder for the individuals, and so I agree. We need to continue educating. We need to continue talking, because what the big guys have done is they’ve prepared for this before it ever came. Then the small guys, and Greg can comment on the books of small businesses, they’re oftentimes non-existent. They’re not, they’re not planning for this, they’re not. They’re not putting away reserves, because honestly, they don’t even have books. Oh, the other thing you said, Gregg, is that you, you don’t know what it would take to get a poor person out of poverty because the middle class people are saying, here’s what you need to do. And I think the problem is that we still have silos that we don’t talk to one another, which I’m going to use as the segue into our next topic. We have a national divide we, this has been growing right, and it’s really along what we perceive as party lines, which is kind of funny to me because people talk about the right and the left, and I always learn that the right and the left is a spectrum. So it’s not like two discrete points, but we have been so taught, and, and I’ll, I will say, I think this is our elected officials on both sides and have taught us to categorize this because, unfortunately, fear gets people out to the polls when things are running well, people don’t vote.

[Scott Perelstein]
They benefit personally.

[Doug Jackson]
Right, creating, and so, yeah, so we, I mean, we have a media that also, like, hey, if the news says, you know, today’s a good day, we don’t really have much to report on. You wanna talk about how nice the weather is? Nobody’s going to watch that, so we have created the society where division and fear is really what drives power? What drives economics and there’s certain topics, I mean, it’s been happening, but I, I will say the, uh, the relatively recent assassination of Charlie Kirk. I really saw a huge divide. I saw people, and it’s mostly on social media, where people feel really protected, because I guess you can’t get punched in the face. If you say something to piss someone off, uh, but I, I watched people say, as soon as it happened, before there was any information, this is the fault of the left. They blamed a whole political Spectrum, which again, I don’t even know. Then you had people also commenting on social media, saying, almost celebrating the death of their fellow American and I will go so far as to say both of these are completely wrong sentiments in my opinion. Now, you’ve okay, you’ve got free speech, right? You can say whatever you want. That doesn’t mean it’s not stupid. Uh, there’s a difference between being able to say what you want and being able to not sound like an idiot. But this, it’s created this divide, and we’ve stopped talking to one another. We, we’ve created these identities, and, and we want to categorize everything and we look for the differences rather than looking for the similarities and people get so hostile, and I don’t know how to change this, but I think we are at a point where we need to change this, we need to start talking to one another. We need to break down silos, big businesses, and small businesses need to talk, uh, people in middle class and in poverty. You need to talk, we, if we don’t start talking to one another about everything and trying to figure out the similarities and trying to come together for a common purpose. I’m worried about what’s going to happen because I’m not seeing positive change. I’m seeing negative change.

[Tina Yakel]
So, coming from being poor? My grandmother had a sixth grade education. She would have never found that. She didn’t know how to. She didn’t even drive. Never found your, your portal, your hub. She’s sixth grade level. So if she, would have not known how to find any of that, like a lot of my family. I don’t know what you’re, I’m just using that, as an example, like she doesn’t, the reading was very limited. The, a lot of these movies for us to help people out there

[Dayna Himot]

It’s not made for them-

[Tina Yakel]
I’m just making a point that she did not, she didn’t, she would not like, unless, you were able to come to her door, she wouldn’t have known it. She rode her bicycle. She cleaned hotels. She was a maid, and so that, I think, when you talk about education and she would have never, never went to somebody who was wealthy to talk.

[Doug Jackson]
Well, but why would you and this is? It’s funny, because this is a bit of a theme that we have been talking at the ambassadors, is it, it should be incumbent, I think. As Americans, I’ll go so far as to say on those who are more privileged, to extend their hand out to those who are less privileged, and we actually don’t see that as a duty at all, we see it quite the opposite.

[Tina Yakel]
I don’t, so I’m gonna just speak from me. I can only speak for me. I don’t want a duty? I don’t want a handout. We weren’t raised to get a handout, so if somebody wealthy was to come to be like, it’s my duty to help you. We would have said go fly a freaking kite because I can just work harder, so I think that’s where I think it’s a, it’s a change in dialogue. Like, maybe it’s an imposter syndrome. It’s, it was me leaving to now be in a room with you. That would have never happened before, like there had, a lot of work had to go on up here for me to even feel comfortable to be with people that were way different, in a way my perception way out of my league. So, when we’re talking about education, I think it’s really important. This is really personal, but like we had to put my brother in a drug rehab and so failure, failure failure will become what the winner was was being in a drug rehab with other drug rehabbers that made it. So, I think that’s how you communicate is you get people who have come out because now you can, now, they’re relatable. Like, like higher business people. They’re not relatable to the lower income.

[Doug Jackson]
So why is that, though? Is that because the higher business people don’t interact? Here’s my premise on all of this, is that we don’t interact with people. Yeah, it, we, we don’t interact with people except those who look like us who talk, like us, who think, like us, both sides.

[Tina Yakel]
I agree with that

[Dayna Himot]
I, I would love to interject and I look really. We actually have more in common than you would realize, and so, I hope, look forward to becoming, uh, your acquaintance. Um, I have a different experience with living in a low-income living on assistance. I also have a different experience on receiving generosity from people. Um, and mine was always around a church environment and I also do ride my bike. I did clean houses to get myself through college with my sons. Um, and I am a success story. I don’t live in in how I was raised. I live in. What can I do to, I am that person. It’s possible to change the things, and so I actually do go out and talk to people. I’m talking to homeless people on a daily basis, I’m, I hug them. I get them services. I give them money. I give them water. I do whatever I can, and I don’t give them sleeping bags. I try to get them to where they need to go, and so you’re right. I agree with you there. You’re valid. And I, and I think you have a lot to say, that is very important here. Here, but there are some of us who are out there doing it. It doesn’t mean anyone else who isn’t doing this, but you’ve seen me to help us.

[Scott Perelstein]
I’ve seen her help.

[Dayna Himot]
Yeah. And so, the reason I’m saying that is what I know is, there are a lot of people who have been hurt by the way they were raised. I get it, and I want to be able to see people who have been through this experience to go and help the people and to not feel I’ve been treated so poorly by rich people before. It’s so funny, because it just made me stronger, so I get it. And I would love to. To learn to bridge the gap with you.

[Doug Jackson]
Well, look, let’s say I want to talk about something you said Tina, because it’s interesting to me, and I think that you might have hit really the Crux here of the problem is that people don’t want to receive, and I think it goes back to kind of a tribal mindset, but it’s not about, and use the term handout. I don’t even think it’s a handout, and it’s funny because we like to label these things as handouts. Although when you give a tax break to a big business, that’s not a handout that’s somehow earned. So, it’s, it’s funny, because, again, we’re going back to categories like, how do we term things and words matter, they really do and, and so, because, yeah, if I was, like, you know? We want to give you a tax break. We want to give you a subsidy, you’re probably like, oh, great. I earned that, but if we say, hey, we want to give you a handout. You’re like, no, no, and it, but it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. It’s just a different word, but I think we have this problem of being able to receive from people that we don’t consider our tribe, and because I mean, you’re like, we won’t take a hand out well, but you absolutely would have from your neighbor, you absolutely. If they’re, like, hey, we, we baked you some cookies, you absolutely would have taken that. Because, you’re right, and, and so we again, I think it goes back to this fear, and I think this is also the divide. Is that people want to label and then they will only trust one another. So how do we get people to start trusting one another, because until we learn to receive until we learn to think in broader categories and more common goals, we are going to sacrifice progress for the sake of perfection. We’re going to say, yes, we, I have this belief. I’ve said it many times. I think that all Americans want the same thing. We want peace, prosperity, and health. I think it doesn’t matter which side of the aisle you’re on. I mean, there’s some sociopaths out there, but like, whatever, those? Yeah, we’re not talking about the sociopaths we’re talking about real Americans that want peace, prosperity, and health and that, then we get into these fights of well, no, my idea for prosperity is a little bit different than your idea. And if we can’t have it my way we’re not doing it at all and we have sacrificed compromise, which we used to see compromise as a strength, and now we see compromise as compromising your morals, compromising your convictions, which is not it at all. So, how do we reframe the issues, and I think one time we talked about it too is we speak different languages as well, uh, I mean, I’ve talked about this. The political right tends to talk about freedom. Okay, great. The political left talk tends to talk about diversity. Those are the same things, you cannot have freedom without diversity, you just can’t. You can’t have individualism without diversity, you can’t. But when someone says freedom versus someone saying diversity we, we hear that as a clash again, like subsidy versus handout. It’s the same thing. So, how do we? How can we break that down? How can we talk? How can we encourage people to talk across the, uh, I also, to break down the silos and start trying to speak a common language. Is there a way to do that, or is this, are we too far lost?

[Tina Yakel]
No, I think you have to start with the kids.

[Doug Jackson]
How, but, but that’s an issue, because then you’re looking at indoctrination. Katie, you’ve been quiet and you’re politely raising, so,

[Katie Tawzer]
I don’t have much to speak on, but I have a little thought that has been kind of ruminating. Um, I think, and you know, when you said kids, I was, like, I have to say it. I think that my generation, the younger generations, are beginning to, or at least more so, are having those conversations and are reaching out to different people. And you know the categories that we’re trying to put people in are a wider, more gray, with the younger generations. You know, we don’t need to get into it at all on, like a formal level. But like, gender identity, sexual identity, um, things like that are more of a spectrum with the younger generation, and I think, you know, not all of them, absolutely. Because it depends on the way they’ve grown up and have been raised and the environments that they’re in, but I think in general it tends to be a little more of a spectrum. Um, and there’s less of a divide, but I think that a lot of times, at least in my experience, you know, I’m having those conversations, I’m bridging those gaps. But then, I’m told by my elders or people are older than me, that that’s not the way things are. That’s not true. You’re too young. No, you don’t know anything. You’re too young, so it’s not again, not like willingness to change, the willingness to redefine your beliefs

[Doug Jackson]
Um, you nailed it it is a fear well and thank you for sitting in here with a bunch of old people. But no, because that’s, that’s another divide. I think we, I don’t think we do a good job of talking to young people. I mean, I remember, and maybe I was just being, people are blowing smoke at me, but when I was younger, people were like, you’re, you’re our future. You’re our future leaders, and now, I don’t feel like we ever say that about young people either. I mean, it just, it looks like we’re looking for differences, so. How are you guys doing it? How are, what are? How are these conversations about spectrums and broader categories, how are you starting these conversations, because maybe we older people need to learn from you?

[Katie Tawzer]
I think that, um, again, I can’t speak for everyone, but from my personal experience. Um, I have a background in the Arts, and that one is immediately going to make me more, not gonna make me, but I think probabilities, chances of being a more understanding person are higher. Yeah, you learn about compassion and feeling emotions rather than going away from them and um, and I think that, you know people are drawn to the Arts because it’s a way of communicating via words via emotions via hysicalities, and so. Um, you know, my exposure to so many different kinds of people that were also attracted to the Arts led me to have those conversations of oh, you don’t identify as one of these binaries, like, can I ask you some questions, like, first of all, it’s getting that permission because it can be very vulnerable for different people, and so you know, learning from each experience really. Like, I’m not trying to, yes, it’s a conversation, but really like, it’s that intention of I’m the listener. I need to learn from you. It’s also not their responsibility to teach you right, like if they don’t want to have that conversation they don’t have to, but a lot of times they’re willing to, you know, for the cause of it, like trying to educate different people, and so, um. You know, even, you know, I lived in Chicago for a year, and that was a total like own world and was very um? Politically different than living in Florida. And so it was a little bit of a change. But then I found this hub in St Pete, which also tends to have similar beliefs to a big city like Chicago, in my opinion. Um, and I think, you know it’s finding those different environments that are willing to have conversations. Which can be very hard and a lot of times it’s easier to, for example, go to the coffee shop you normally go to. But it’s like if you go to a different one. And, like, if you’re like, my partner and I, we try to like meet people and like, have a conversation, um, because we don’t, we’re new to this city. We’ve only been here a year. We want to make friends and things like that, so it’s going to the new coffee shop and talking to someone you’ve never run into before. And maybe you don’t get along, but you’ve learned something about what you don’t get along about, um, and more often than not, you can find that common ground, and I don’t know if it’s just, you know, I’ve only, I just turned 25. So, like, I’ve only this is my first government shutdown. This is, like, my first time doing all these things and. It’s kind of like, I’ve only ever known, you know, a devised country, I’ve not known anything better. So, it’s like, this sucks. Like, what can we do to make it better?

[Tina Yakel]
That’s the difference in your community, your age group. My girls are your age, and I see it in my girls. Is that you’re like that sucks? I don’t, I don’t want that. And I say to my girls, they’re like, I don’t care what color you are. I don’t care. Are you a nice person? Yeah, and my girls, I see it, our older generation, my parents. They’re still super judgmental. You’re kind of stuck our age. You’re kind of stuck in the middle, but I think your generation is our future, and I do think your generation is gonna be the difference because you, you guys just accept, like, it’s okay. And that’s what I love about, I mean, that’s what I love about my girls.

[Dana Himot]
Yeah there is the paralysis that comes with that. I know my adult sons really do not want me to tell them that they are the, they have the, they’re the gatekeepers because they’re like, yeah, Mom, it’s all good, you know, because they’re inherently good people. And so I have stopped reminding my adults Sons that they are the future and just get hem to know that I love them, and so that they can just do their level best out there. But I feel like it’s a lot of pressure on the flip side, when we, when we put that on the youth because I was told certain things too, and I was like I, I would breathe and didn’t do anything. So sorry, I interrupted you.

[Alexis Egozcue]
So, as the person here who has young children? Um, I think you all know that I make a big effort to take them with me to do the things that I do, to meet the people that I meet. I make a very big effort to bring them places where people wouldn’t necessarily expect a child to be, and I’m very honest and open with them, and I think that’s the difference. I, I know a lot of my friends are like this, and we now see that our kids are going to have friends that are different colors, different races, different, you know, religions. And what I have noticed, at least for, I can’t say my age because I’m an old mom, but um, but for people who have kids, my age is that they’re really working hard to do that, too, right? So our biggest thing is, like what you said, when we tell them listen, I don’t care. Are they a good person? And it’s, but I will tell you, two years ago, I went on a field trip with my daughter and we were paired up with people of different colors and one of the girls came up to me and said, well, my parents don’t like white people, but I think you’re okay. And I was, like, thank you. You, you know, I’m like, listen, you know, your parents have, whatever their beliefs. I said I think if you’re a good person, that’s what really matters, but I went home and I was, I was so sad, because it’s like, like, why are we doing this? Like, we don’t, we don’t need to do this. We can be more open. Um, but I do think it’s talking to your kids. My kids know about the shutdown. They understand what’s going on. They understand the political climate we’re in right now, they understand it at their level, right? So, we don’t have to get into it all, but what we do need to do is make sure that we are educating our children so that they understand. Hey, this is what’s happened when you’re a child because as they grow up, knowledge is power. So now they know okay, how can we change? This, we need to be open. We need to have the conversation. So, and us, as parents, and as adults, make sure that, you know, we are being honest and open with the younger generation. It’s not, you should be, you know, seen and not heard. This is completely wrong, and that’s terrible that that people went through that, um. But, and taking them places. My kids are around everyone. They are welcomed everywhere. I think that’s the big thing, so, continuing that, really pushing people to say there’s room. You guys know Nora is in front of everything, and she’s done it more than I have done in my life. She’s done at eight, so I, I think pushing people to do that, and then hopefully that, I hate, I’m gonna say it. I don’t care. They’re wrong, I’m like this older generation, this very old generation that has these mindsets and thought processes. And then we have the next generation come up that goes that wasn’t okay. That’s right. So, let’s change this.

[Tina Yakel]
Yep, I agree, I think that’s where it has to start, because you can’t change that mindset. And we put these pretend, in my opinion, these pretend systems in place that make us feel good. It’s just about us because it’s not changing that, and we need to refocus and help the people and give them hope and it doesn’t matter if you’re white chocolate, dark chocolate, milk chocolate, like it, really doesn’t matter. It’s a person, and that’s where it has to start.

[Gregg Potter]
I would say this, though. This is, like, here’s the question on that. Well, that’s great, that we all say that. But why did that child’s parents have that opinion? They didn’t pull that out of nowhere. They did that because they have been in a position where they have experienced racism blatantly. They’ve been called the n-word. They’ve been, they’re children. These are kids that are, I guess your daughter’s age, and I don’t know your kid, I don’t know how old your kid is?

[Alexis Egozcue]
She was six.

[Gregg Potter]
Okay, it’s almost kind of close, huh? I don’t know how old kids are. They’re small, and then they get married and it so unfortunate, and I’m just sad, because I’m old now. You know, they come, that comes from a place that’s, they didn’t, they didn’t invent that one day, and to be clear, that didn’t come from another six-year-old. That came from a grown-up. What six-year-old comes up with that on their own? No, they learn that. And going back to in, and this is a bit of this, and this is a bit of what’s come up before, too, on why do people end up in these silos. We could say, we can sit here and say, I can sit here and say that me and that child’s parents we’re the same? We are not the same. I have infinite advantages over them because of how they look. They’re probably smarter than me. Probably more successful than me. They’re obviously raising good kids. I can’t do any of that, but a big chunk of people will do two things. Say, number one, I’m better than you. And to a lot of these people say, and this comes back to this, why are we, why is there a political divide? There’s really not a political divide. I think there’s some tails at the end of people. People are crazy. I am not a both sideser, but there’s crazy people across the spectrum. It’s not a political divide to say it’s a political divide. To say, we can agree on some broader economic issues. I think more money should go into low-income housing. I think more should go into education to get those people out of their housing. That’s a political divide. A political divide isnt, I don’t think you as a human should exist. That’s not a political divide. We, we cannot meet common ground on that and then. Fun fact on the legal side, the first case that the Supreme Court is going to take up and the new session is, can we have gay conversion therapy? That is telling a group of people that they cannot exist. We are trying to unexist you. We don’t want trans people. You shouldn’t exist. That’s a problem, that’s not a political divide. That is, we are so far apart that, where do you begin when we are starting to other people that bad, and we’re trying to other people out of existence, and that goes back to your, your daughter’s friend, is that that doesn’t come from nowhere that came from that kid picked it up, and that kid. I’m gonna be gone. We’re all gonna be gone. I’m I, I’d love to believe, I’d love to be so optimistic as some of you to say that’s, that there’ll be a, that’s gonna exist for a long, long time of that of that child, dealing with that. That’s not a political divide.

[Tina Yakel]
This is a personal pet peeve of mine, and I think it leads off to this, and I have never said this publicly because I’m probably gonna get ridiculed for it.

[Doug Jackson]
You’re on the record here.

[Tina Yakel]
I know, but you know what it is, what it is? This is the topic it comes from. Join my black girls Social Club. You can’t say, join my white girl Social Club. It comes from women only networking. Well, where’s the men only Network? You can’t say that it comes from these sororities and these fraternities that are Hispanic, only black, only, you’re dividing. You’re dividing, like I was just told last week, you know, you could get money for your business, and you could get business, if you tell people you’re Hispanic and a girl. I said, I won’t do it. I refuse to do it because I’m a person-

[Alexis Egozcue]
Let me jump in and ask you a question now. So, with some of these groups, the mindset is, is that because they are underrepresented, and so people aren’t giving these groups of people a chance, and so they’re utilizing their knowledge together to bring them up. So that I think is, that’s part of it. It’s the same thing with, like, you know, the LGBTQ community like, this is, is that Community? What, what I have seen, is kind of a switch on it now. Where a lot of people are saying, you know, we are, it’s not only, it’s that and Ally, right? So that’s kind of the switch that I, I have noticed over the last couple of years that it’s not, okay, this is woman only. Um, but if you are promoting women and you want to be a part of it, then then you can also join, so it’s not as regimented as I think it used to be. Um, but it’s, it’s interesting, I know.

[Doug Jackson]
And let’s look at this longitudinally, because for hundreds, if not thousands of years, we absolutely said this. To say this is a white male, only group, women aren’t allowed to vote. Black people aren’t allowed to vote. Black people aren’t people, they’re property? I mean, we have done this for a long, long time, and to say that, and only, and first of all, you, you absolutely, it is, it is kind of almost rebounded because there are a ton of white Christian male groups out there today. So you can’t say that you can’t have these things, because they do exist. And guess what, they’ve always existed. Like, you’ve always had white male groups. Now, I don’t disagree with you in the fact that when we create these kind of groups, it’s not breaking down silos. It’s building silos. However, I will also say if you have white male group. The only way to try to counter that, because these white male groups have existed, they have had rights when, when other people didn’t have rights throughout the United States of America, and I, I will say this, because I know that some of the rhetoric right now is you should be embarrassed to be an American or whatever. Absolutely right, but? Saying that you made mistakes in the past, and learning from them is not being embarrassed to be an American. You should be proud that you’re learning from your mistakes that you’re being better. I mean, I’ve said this before. Athletes, okay, we always talk about being, we’re a competitive country, we want to be the best. Athletes, watch film, and guess what, they spend more time on their mistakes than they do on the plays they did well, because you learn more from your mistakes. But so, yeah, we’re, the only way to catch up with these white males, who literally are the only ones who had have property, allowed to vote, allowed to do everything, and I, I’m a white male and and I, to Gregg’s point, they do studies on like juries, too, and you’re more likely to be convicted if your skin is darker, just, everything else equal, you’re more likely to be convicted if your skin is darker. So everything works against that. So, the only way to counter these white male groups is to have the minority groups. Is it or

[Tina Yakel]
Just control what you control and don’t participate in it as long as?

[Doug Jackson]
As long as there’s white male groups, the only way for those minority groups to come up is to, now, what you’re advocating for is exactly right. We shouldn’t have white male groups either, but, but that’s, but that’s not what you said. What you said is, we can’t say it’s a white male group, and so, then, what happens you’re, you’re not saying, you know, what I don’t, I don’t agree with white male groups. You’re saying we can’t have those, so you’ve just created this division instead of this common goal. You’re not saying there’s too many white males hanging out together, they need to go hang out with the females. I mean, hell, look at this. Are we, look what we did? Here we have women on one side of the table and men on the other side of the table. What’s funny is that, so what happens is, this is a subconscious thing. We don’t even realize. And you know, what I, I see this at a lot of meetings where women are on one side of the table, and men are on the other side of the table. I sometimes, and I’m sitting on the end, but I will sometimes make a conscious effort to try to stop that.

[Scott Perelstein]
Well, the three of us went to spy school, and you always put the solid background behind us.

[Dana Himot]
I stopped going to the other side because I normally would sit next to the dudes, but it, very quickly. You’ll be labeled like, you know.

[Doug Jackson]
But so, but I, and we’re out of time. So, we need to end this, but I think I think one of the things here, and I, I’ve said this, and this is something I’ve been trying to do is really call people out on their division because I think that it’s been a problem, and I think if we can create, if we can talk to one person and say, hey, look, you’re being pretty divisive. Like, I don’t even know if you noticed this, but just next time you want to post or say something divisive, just don’t or like, look for some commonality because I, I do believe that we are all proud to be Americans. I don’t think it matters if you’re right or left. I mean, I, I find that the right and left try to tell each other, they’re not like, they don’t, they’re not proud or whatever, but I, I disagree with that. I think that we all want peace, prosperity, and health, and I think that if we can have these conversations and continue this, which is what this is, and that’s why we record this and put this out because I hope that after this, everyone continues these conversations. If each of us could have this conversation and convince two people to be a little bit less divisive, and they could convince two people? Guess what this is going to go away really fast because I disagree that the young people are our hope for the future, because first of all, I don’t want to wait that long, uh, I’m gonna be dead before I see anything good. And secondly. I’m young, I, I’m a millennial. And I’m watching, now, our Millennial generation be as, just jaded and terrible as the older generations, because what happens is when you’re told this over and over and over again for years, you start to become it. Yeah, and I’m watching the Millennials now attack the young, all this young generation. I’m, like, we’re not that far removed guys, so I, I disagree, that we’re gonna, I’m not going to put hope in you, I’m sorry, you’re right. It starts with us, and I think that if we say this and we, we can spread this, and I think it, the theme here is the only way to break down silos is to have conversations and to hold each other accountable. And, and that’s not to say, you can’t have different opinions. You absolutely can have different opinions, but we, I think, one opinion that should be the same is compromise is strength. And if we have a shared big goal, we can compromise on little things to get there because progress is always going to be better than no progress. And I hear this all the time, well, we can’t do policy A, because we haven’t perfected policy B. No, we can do a lot of things at once. We have a giant government when it’s operating, and, and so my, I’m gonna, the takeaway is that I’m going to encourage each of us, because this is where the whole idea is that we start the conversations here, continue these conversations. Try to hold people accountable, because guess what, when we as a community start caring about our neighbors, when we start caring about the success of those around us, our local businesses, our local city members, our local Tampa Bay Area, and we start saying, I don’t care if you’re green, purple, whatever, I don’t care what color you are, I don’t care about your political spectrum. I don’t care about your religion. I want you to be successful, and when we start doing that, that’s when we’re going to start holding our elected officials accountable, because right now, we’re electing people who further the divide. And we are, we are afraid. And so, what we do when we are afraid, is we divide further and the only way to counter that fear is to say, hey guys, this is going to sound really sappy, I apologize, I love you, you’re my fellow Americans. You’re my friends, I love you. You don’t have to be afraid around me, and you got to keep saying that and keep showing up until they believe it and keep showing it. I mean, this isn’t a new concept. This is, if you look at almost every single religion like, this is kind of how the prophets and the other people have said it. It’s really the Golden Rule if we can follow the Golden Rule, like, we’re gonna be in pretty good shape. So I’m going to conclude on that and thank everyone today for having an incredible discussion, uh, thank you for your time, insights, participation. Your engagement is what makes Lattes with a Lawyer a more valuable experience. As you know, uh, this is, uh, we do this through The Law Firm of Douglas G Jackson. We host three signature events, uh, Alexis, you want to tell us what they are?

[Alexis Egozcue]
Sure, well, it’s Lattes with a Lawyer. And guess what? It’s already up on our website, so if you’d like to come back and continue the conversation, please go ahead and log in and register. We also have our Beach Cleanup, it is the first Saturday of every month. It is at Pass-a-grille, and we partner with Keep Pinellas Beautiful, it’s a great way to get your month started off right. Lastly, next week, we have our BEN Workshop. We have three wonderful speakers, and it is a way that we can educate our community and uplift each other, and also have some great networking and one of our speakers is Doug Jackson.

[Alexis Egozcue]
So you guys, since you’re in this, you’re gonna get a preview. So we have Tara Hubbard as well, and Mr. Chris Steinocher.

[Doug Jackson]
Wow

[Alexis Egozcue]
It is our last one of the year.

[Doug Jackson]
Chris Steinocher

[Scott Perelstein]
Sold out, huh? I think it told me last a couple of days ago.

[Doug Jackson]
That’s fantastic. We can talk after this off the record. Yes, uh, yeah, but yes, we’re only having three speakers because Chris Steinocher and I are both speaking, so we’ll be way over time.

[Alexis Egozcue]
It’ll be four hours.

[Doug Jackson]
Uh, and one of the things that I do want to say because I think it, this message needs to be articulated a little bit better. Is that this this forum here? This Lattes with a Lawyer, this is where we get the conversation started. We hope that you carry it. We hope that you if you want to put together an outside action group and actually take action on these things, we encourage, urge you to do that. We can’t do it all right here, but every voice matters. And if we spread this, and if you, if this becomes the catalyst, the spark for something bigger, we encourage you to do it. You’re not stepping on our toes with Lattes with a Lawyer. If you take the ideas and go do something with that. So I just want to make that very, very clear.

[Dayna Himot]
That’s what inspired me to build the Hub, was being in here, and I’m going and doing it. So, thank you.

[Doug Jackson]
yeah, I’m excited to see that.

[Dayna Himot]
Yeah, I’m going to share with you.

[Doug Jackson]
Yea, and but, because this is a law firm event and we are putting time into this, which means that I’m paying Katie and Alexis to be here, we have to do a marketing thing. So we have to have a group photo with the Lattes with a Lawyer mug.

[Dayna Himot]
Oh cool, can I wear my hat?

[Doug Jackson]
You can wear your hat, yes. Please celebrate freedom in individuality. All right. For those of you reading, thank you for reading, hope we’ll see you next time next.